Dylan Thomas and Theodore Roethke's poems are about similar subjects. After your group discussions, what similarity or difference stands out the most and why do you think it's important to the meaning of the poems? Please write a short paragraph answering this question and then comment on at least one other response for full credit.
This is due by 11 p.m. on Wednesday evening.
The thing that stands out in both of the poems is that they're both about death. Theodore repeats "I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow". Which means that he's accepting of death, but he's not going to be going out in a flash, he plans to live a long life on the "Ground" that God blessed upon him. Where as Thomas also uses repetition to say"rage, rage against the dying of the light". Here Thomas is saying to don't accept death, but to fight against it by living life to the fullest. The two contradict each other because Theodore argues to accept fate, whereas Thomas argues to go against it, but they both express that death won't take them so easily. However, when both of their ideas are put together, they express that people should live their life long, happy, and to the fullest, so that when death comes, all there is to do is accept it.
ReplyDeleteI agree on how Theodore's idea of death is to accept it, and to take it slowly. I like the way you stated Thomas's interpretation of death as him wanting to fight death rather than to accept it like Theodore.
DeleteBoth of the poems are about death, but the difference in the way they both interpret their idea of how to go about life stands out to me. Even though both poems acknowledge that death will come to everybody someday, Roethke has a sort of calm and accepting feeling about it while Thomas basically says to be angry and rage about it. These differences define each poem's meaning about their interpretation of death. The ideas of death in each poem are complete opposites of each other. Also, the use of repetition in each poem helps explain their ideas. In Roethke's poem, he says, "I wake to sleep and take my waking slow," which basically sets the whole tone of the poem of relaxing and letting life happen as it is. Thomas's poem repeats, "Rage, rage against the dying of the light," and sets up a mindset of being angry at how life will eventually end.
ReplyDeleteI like how you brought up tone and used it as a peice of evidence. I also agree with the sentiments you express towards the impost ambe of said differences in the two peoms
DeleteThe most interesting difference is that both poems are on death yet have such differing views on how to live until you die. While Thomas talks of not going in the night gently rather fright till your last breath and make it worth the time you spent alive, porthole talk of letting death in for we only wake to sleep. The only real reason that we live is so we can die is in direct contradiction to what Thomas think of death. Maybe the context could explain why they have differing views. If Thomas father had not been dieing would he have taken a similar or differnt approach to death. Is fighting what he truly beloved, or given time would have sided with Roethke?
ReplyDeleteI like the fact that you brought up that question, I believe it all comes down to one's particular belief. His father would have died no matter what, so I believe that Thomas would have the same opinion on it. Also, I would assume that Roethke has lost someone close to but has accepted it. All in all I agree with your opinion on the differences!
DeleteInterestin predicament, i suppose it shows to what distance poems are are emotions in ink. Thomas could've written a killer SLAM poem i think.
DeleteI agree on the grounds that death both brings the poems together, but takes them apart at the same time. Despite the similar subject death has a different meanings according to the author. One looks at death as something natural and the other looks at it as a monster one should fight.
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ReplyDeleteIn the two villanelles, both Thomas and Roethke are in their own way affected by the procedure and thought of death, one being an opposition to it and the other an acceptance. Both Thomas and Roethke have a particular opinion which they both express using metaphors. In Roethke's poem "The Waking", he compares waking up and sleeping to living and dying. In Thomas' poem "Do Not Go Gentle into That Good Night", he compares the day to life, sunset to the moment of death and night to the afterlife. What the two don't agree on is how death should be approached, Thomas believes that one should not give in to death and to fight against it, whereas Roethke accepts that life leads to death and that it is a fundamental truth about life. These opinions not only show how they react to death, but an idea of what they each had experienced in their life to have affected their beliefs.
I agree with what you say here. I think the different opinions on a shared matter is one of the key differences regarding the meaning. One poem being submissive or accepting and the other is an opposition.
DeleteWhile both Roethke and Thomas' poems share a similar subject of death, they do however contain differing viewpoints and stances regarding the subject. On one side, Roethke writes his poem as if he is speaking about his own inevitable demise. Using the pronoun 'I' indicates he is writing in first person, and it can be concluded that he wishes to reference his own coming death with the line, "I feel my fate in what I cannot fear" (2). The repeated line, "I learn by going where I have to go", as part of the villanelle reveals Roethke's somber but submissive demeanor about death. It does not bring him happiness, but he knows it is unavoidable and the only choice is to be accepting of this fact. Thomas on the other hand, has an aggressive view towards death and is contrarily unaccepting. He believes everyone should, "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" and that no man, be it a wise man, good man, wild man, or a grave man does not "go gentle into that good night". The last stanza shows that Thomas is upset over his father's death and doesn't want him to die easy. To fight against the inevitability and to take what you can out of life vs. accepting your fate is where Thomas and Roethke are disparate.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your response on how the two poems share different views on how to take on death. I like how you explained that the tense the authors use in their villanelle reflects on where they stand, based on if it was about them or of their loved one.
DeleteBoth poems discuss the coming of death and that it is inevitable, but have contradicting ideas on how to approach it. In "The Waking" by Theodore Roethke, the narrator describes how they live just to die in the end; They approach the idea that by accepting death, it is only following the way of life and letting nature lead us, "Great Nature has another thing to do to you and me" (Roethke 13,14). Roethke uses the metaphors waking and sleeping to signify life and death but not in a fearful tone. Throughout the villanelle, the idea of dying is meant to be appreciated and accepted by those who are scared of it. Meanwhile, Dylan Thomas's "Do Not Go Gentle into that Good Night" conveys a different interpretation on how to deal with death. Thomas explains that even with old age, "Old age should burn and rave at close of day" (Thomas 2). This emphasizes the strong belief that he has on fighting death and not allowing it to come easy. He explains how everyone has the potential to strive for life by living it to the best of their ability while others regret not taking the "gay" side.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with you! Both poems focus on Death, and its inevitable nature, but their attitudes towards it contrast one another. I also liked how you interpreted Roethke's "The Waking" and used the metaphor to support your analysis. But, are you basically asserting that this villanelle's theme is "Accept death as it is natural"?
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ReplyDeleteAlthough both poems focus on death, each respective attitude towards this particular subject clearly contrasts the other, which stands out the most and emphasizes the themes of each villanelle even further. For example, in Roethke's mysterious "The Waking," the narrator persists that s/he will slowly (and possibly hesitantly) go on with the rest of his/her life waiting for his/her demise, and that we grow by awaiting this inevitable doom. Moreover, through diction, I also noticed that the tone was, for a lack of a better clarification, somber, dull, and submissive—closely, humankind is mostly displayed as "robotic" and possibly even ignorant—we constantly ponder, we are guided by not by our intellect but by our emotions and the thought of dying, we question what we should know. However, mankind in Thomas’ fiery “Do Not Go Gentle into that Good Night” is anything but inferior; we are urged not to let Death control our very existence and instead battle it immensely regardless of our status and health. This tone is aggressive, intense, and fierce.
ReplyDeleteI like how you mention diction to help describe the tone of the story. I find the effect of diction just as strong as other literary devices.
DeleteI definitely agree with your take on the poems. I addressed similar aspects of the poem, but not tone. You did a great job of taking note of the tone no doubt. I also thought your take on Roethke making humankind was unique and definitely required some abstract thinking. Really great job, nice!
DeleteYour response caused me to re-read it with the tones of the villanelles that you mentioned. Their tones really brought out the author's viewpoints even more.
DeleteSame as Kieth. I had to look at it again and re read it because i misinterpreted the viewpoints to a certain extent.
DeleteI really like the idea you brought up about tone and diction. Up until this point i haven't really notice that as i was paying more attention to what the poem was about and not how the author may have spoken it. i found it interesting how you brought up humankind as "robotic."
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ReplyDeleteIn “The Walking”, Theodore Roethke says “I wake to sleep”. This quote is shown all over the poem because of how it is like the thesis of the author’s view. This is an oxymoron since people do not wake up to sleep. This can be rephrased to that waking up means being born. To sleep is like to die. In short, we are born to die. Since the author knows where he will eventually end up, he decides to take life as a simple as waking up. The allusion of Great Nature is like a reference to the way nature is. This introduces the stanza that means nature can only give you so much but death is not something it can control so enjoy what life nature gives you because death will eventually happen. Overall the way the author uses literary devices gives the poem an accepting tone.
ReplyDeleteThe author, Dylan Thomas, uses the night as a symbol to represent death. This helps rephrase some of the main lines in the poem by saying that we should not just let death take us. As a result, the tone of the poem is like a mediocre of death that will eventually happen.
I like that you recognized the importance of nature in the "The Waking". I also agree that Thomas used night to symbolize death and day as life. You made some good points in your paragraph!
DeleteI like that you recognized the importance of nature in the "The Waking". I also agree that Thomas used night to symbolize death and day as life. You made some good points in your paragraph!
DeleteBoth poems are similar in theme that one should enjoy and appreciate life before they start dying. However, Thomas' "Do Not Go Gentle into That Good Night" aggressive tone and references to light make it stand out more than Roethke's "The Waking". The speaker's aggressive tone emphasizes the importance of fighting against death by living to the fullest. The references to light enhance the meaning of the poem because they represent life and it's beauty. For example, "blind eyes could blaze like the meteors..." and "rage against the dying of the light" represents the dying man's ability to see the value of life. Although he was not able to see the importance of life then, his strong recognition of it now is fierce.
ReplyDeleteNice points! I also agree with the two unique tones that both poems use. Also the fact that the poem emphasized "life and it's beauty" made a lot of sense; because I never actually interpreted the poem in that sense. Nice Job!
DeleteDuring our group discussions, my group and I derived a common theme of life and death. As we began analyzing "Do not go gentle into that good night" by Dylan Thomas, we found Thomas' attempt to convey a sense of denying life through the titled representation of death in the word night. Moreover our interpretation of this poem has led us to believe that it enhances the meaning of the poem; through the overall theme that revolves around the poem being endure life through to its final moments, otherwise reject life as it is too short. Furthermore as we began analyzing the less obvious poem "The Walking" by Theodore Roethke, we found the poets use of personification to convey the action of accepting life; through the line "light takes the tree." Although both poems tend to contradict each other, through the common theme of life and the use of oxymoron; both poems also share the theme of death.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement. I also like how you pointed out the use of personification and oxymoron. Reading the poem over again knowing this opened my eyes even more.
DeleteMy group agreed that both poems are in regards to death. Furthermore, I believe that both portray an act to delay the arrival of death. This is shown through lines such as "...take my waking slow" and "Do not go gentle into that good night." However, despite these similarities I think there is a significant difference in their approach. The poem written by Dylan Thomas takes a more aggressive approach as he seems to want to literally battle death itself. On the other hand, Theodore Roethke's approach is more accepting of death, for although he won't simply give in, he's aware that it will happen inevitably. These are important to the poems' meanings because they both show a different perspective on death, whether it be positive, negative, or neutral.
ReplyDeleteI pretty much agree with what you have to say, but instead of saying that Thomas "seems to want to literally battle death," I think his attitude towards death is more along the lines of not going down without a fight. I feel that Thomas isn't as drastic as to go on wanting to take death down, but rather wants to urge others to not embrace it by resisting it
DeleteI think it can be agreed upon that both poems are talking about death, but the audience that each poem is referring to is different. In “The Waking”, Roethke focuses primarily on himself when referring to death, as compared to Thomas’ “Do Not Go Gentle into that Good Night,” where Thomas talks about the death of his father and many others. The tone of Roethke’s poem is more relaxed and accepting, which contributes to the idea that death is inevitable, and that we, as human beings, should be ready for that fate. However, in Thomas’ poem, the tone is rather hostile towards death with the usage of phrases like “rage against the dying of the light.” This conveys the idea that Thomas despises death and urges others to resist death rather than embracing it, which is the exact opposite of Roethke’s meaning. Although the poems differ in their feelings towards death, they both are able to convey the message that death is unavoidable.
ReplyDeleteI really like your response, and that you brought up the focus of the poems, with Roethke's on himself, and Thomas being on his father. I think that reveals a lot about them, because a lot of time we see accepting your own fate as kind of wise and peaceful, but it seems kind of cruel to be okay with your relatives dying.
DeleteAlthough the villanelles both Thomas and Roethke wrote are about extending life despite knowing their ultimate destiny, the writers had very different attitudes towards it. Thomas' poem, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night", uses a lot of strong tone words and phrases like "rage", "fierce tears", and "do not go gentle". He is expressing a belief that people should hold on to life for as long as they can, and not let death take them easily. It is a very emotional and frustrated poem. In contrast, "The Waking", by Roethke conveys acceptance to the reader. Roethke uses the repeating phrase, "I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow." which shows the main idea of the poem, that he understands death is coming, but will use his years on earth for as long as he can. It steadies him, know what will happen in the end, and actually allows him to live more freely.
ReplyDeleteI agree on your point about how Thomas is saying don't let death take people away so easily and how Roethke is saying that people should live their lives as long as they can. With that, you could say that the two poets are trying to say that people should live out their lives. I also like your point about how Thomas used aggressive words and phrases, because it contradicts the words that Roethke used, like "softly" and "lively".
DeleteBoth poems revolve around the subject of death. However, they differ in their interpretation of what death means and how it affects the way they carry out their lives. The speaker in Roethke’s “The Walking” trudges along in life with full knowledge that his death is imminent. They do not see dying as something terrifying, but rather see it as the anticlimactic end to a life. They have an easy going and tranquil way of going about life, stating, “I learn by going where I have to go”. Thomas, who states that every man has the will to fight for survival contests this way of life. Thomas wrote “Do Not Go Gentle into that Good Night” for his dying father, pleading him not to let death take him away. Instead of Roethke’s acceptance of death, Thomas states that everyone lives with a carpe diem attitude. The speaker includes wise men, good men, and wild men in the poem to show that no one is exempt from this will to continue to live. In summation, while both speakers talk about death, their different views of how death should be handled are greatly differed
ReplyDeleteI really appreciate the point you made about everyone eventually having to die. In the poem it seems like death only applies to the people the poem is about, but you used it in effect with everyone who is born. I agree with the idea that if you accept mortality and the idea that eventually one must die, and I like that you described how this acceptance could make life easier and more enjoyable rather than afraid that any moment might be the last.
DeleteThe poems share an interest in the experience of life, the manner in which one should live their years upon the Earth. However the most interesting thing that stands out to me is that they both assume that we have control over life. One argues that we should accept life as it is and the other tells us to flail and wave our arms before we keel over, but both are dependent on the idea that we actually affect the universe with our coming and going. "The Waking" claims that we should pass quietly through the void, but it's views are hollow as it assumes that we can interpret life to metaphor. Life is cold, it is mechanical, the human race is the product of lightning striking some mud millions of years ago, it is an objective process. "The Walking" seeks to portray life as a journey that we all go through and can experience to our leisure, but it is not ours and is consequently selfish viewpoint due to its premise of human possession. Humans do not own life, they are a by-product of it thus it does not matter whether you live life like a dream or not, you will be conceived and die regardless of your philosophy. The other poem however is no better, it seeks to interpret a scientific process; just like its counterpart. Humans seek analysis and meaning in things that have no greater moral relevance than what is already plainly visible, we romanticize the idea of existence when in fact no matter what we think it makes no one iota of difference upon the universe. We all lived, over 100 billion of us so far, and perhaps 100 billion more will follow us, but the universe is not a conscious place, it is rock and energy and dust, and we're the only specks of dirt in the whole damn universe that thinks it's worth more than a couple electron bonds, how egotistical is that?
ReplyDeleteAlthough the two villanelles discuss the condition of human life and the subject of death, they also discuss the different ways to look at the grim ending and how to spend life leading up to this fate. Roethke relies on paradoxes to illustrate the idea of taking as much time as needed in life and live life the way that you want, while Thomas utilizes symbolism to convey the cliche to fight and rebel against the common fate of death.
ReplyDeleteFor example, the key lines of Roethke's poem "Waking to sleep", and "learning by going where you have to go" are both paradoxes. Because the poem is built on a series of paradoxes, it establishes the relationship between life (the state of being awake) and death (the state of being asleep), and becomes a circular pattern. "I feel my fate in what I cannot fear," is another paradox. Normally, we fear fate because it is unknown, because it cannot be felt or anticipated. By feeling fate rather than fearing it, you accept it rather than resist it. This helps clarify the line "I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow" (Roethke Line 1). By the time that someone reaches their natural 'sleep', they are certainly enlightened. But as they are awake, they are gaining experiences and building up to become enlightened. But by taking this process slowly, you are going at your own pace and not rushing these experiences, which is the ultimate theme of the villanelle, which is emphasized in repeated parts of the poem.
However, Thomas expresses a theme that is almost an inverse to "The Waking." Symbolism such as "burn and rave" (Thomas 2) and "blaze like meteors" (Thomas 14) represents the passion and intensity of youth, which contrasts between the dying mans situation. Thomas wants his father to fight fiercely against death. He pleads him not to give in to death but to fight with the passion of young men, although he is old.
Well said! I appreciate your thorough response, but that's not a short paragraph. I never really considered Roethkes' use of paradoxes, and with your response, I can see as very clear and important to the message of the poem.
DeleteAlthough both villanelles are about death, Roethke's and Thomas' viewpoints on how to live life to the fullest stand out. Theodore Roethke states, "I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow" which shows that he will live a full life but accepts death as it comes. While Dylan Thomas tells his dying father to "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" showing that he wants his father to live life with every breath and never stop fighting to live longer. These two writers have opposing opinions where Roethke embraces death while Thomas wants to fight and resist it.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree, this makes a lot of sense and was written really simply so it was easy to understand. The quotes really help to get your point across and it was a good analysis with the evidence.
DeleteBoth authors recognise that death is inevitable. However, the way in which they choose to respond to that piece of information is vastly different, especially concerning the point of view from which they write about. Roethke writes from a first person perspective, as if his death is that which is unavoidable. He has a very tranquil reaction to this knowledge about his death and uses sentences such as, “The lowly worm climbs up a winding stair” and, “I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow” to convey this calm attitude to the subject. It characterises him as a relaxed person who understands his imminent doom, and chooses to live his life with the knowledge of death, but not to constantly stand in fear of it. Thomas, on the other hand, differs in that he writes not about himself, but about his father. Because his father is the one threatened by mortality, and not him, Thomas described his feelings differently than he might have if he was speaking about himself. The tone of his poem is much more reluctant and afraid to face the truth. It creates an anxious attitude to his poem, especially in the line, “Rage, rage against the dying of the light”. That line is repeated and is obviously done so to explain the vitality of avoiding death for as long as possible. The reluctance is also shown in the line, “Do not go gentle into that good night”, but this line also has a similarity with Roethke’s poem, in that it recognises that death is not necessarily bad, it is simply that Thomas does not want to experience his fathers.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I like how you brought up that because it was specifically about Thomas' father, because I began to think that the theme the of villanelle is not necessarily that universal. Perhaps Thomas and his father had a strong rapport, so the idea his father fighting for his dying life is understandable. There's definitely a wall of defense that Thomas wants to put around death, so that it can never touch his father. However, I thought because the message comes from a more personal experience, it is less relatable because sometimes, the odds of dying for some, with an illness for example, are extremely high, and they just have to live with that, because there's no way to battle it. Meanwhile in "The Waking," the message is more applicable and universal and also confronts the idea of death, and almost accepts it.
DeleteThe most interesting thing about these two poems is that even though they are about the same subject of death but have totally opposite different approaches or views on it. The poem by Roethke has a more personal feeling to it using "I". His perspective of death is that its a slow process, and he wants to take it as slow as possible. The other author has a take that you should hold on to your life and get as much form it as possible.
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DeleteAfter reading each poem and the group discussion it was quite obvious that the one thing the poems have in common is the general idea that death in unavoidable. A major difference is the idea of whether accepting death or fighting to the end. "The Waking" by Roethke tells the reader to accept death, especially in the phrase "I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow." showing that the speaker knows he will one day die but enjoy every day until then. The poem "Do Not Go Gently Into That Good Night" conveys an opposite opinion of death than Roethkes poem. This poem states that people should fight death and do whatever they can to live. Throughout the poem, even in the title "Do not go gentle.." is an obvious statement saying don't just accept death but fight it and live life to the fullest.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Even though they do share a subject of death, they have different ways of approaching it. They have opposite ideas which makes it really interesting in how people can have such different opinions when the outcome of death is the same regardless.
DeleteRoethke and Thomas both make it clear in their poems that death is ultimately the only thing that will come out of fate, that everyone is destined to die. However, Roethke's "The Waking" provides a completely different perspective on how death should be approached, by implying through phrases such as "I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow" that one should take their time through life to make the most out of it and just accept death at the end. Additionally, the tone of "The Waking" is so much more tranquil than the tone of "Do Not Go Gently Into That Goodnight by Dylan Thomas, which uses more vigorous language such as "rage" and "lightening" and "sun". The difference in tone suggests that one should take be fierce and be determined to struggle in order to rebel against fate. Even the title of the poem suggests resistance to "that goodnight", which means to resist death.
ReplyDeletewhat Roethke and Thomas both share in their poems is that concept of how death is inevitably in our lives. However, the difference is that the author Thomas is more open to the concept. On the other hand, Roethke rather waits until his time as come, as he would rather "take the waking slow."
ReplyDeleteDespite the fact “The Waking” and “Do Not Go Gentle into That Good Night” cover the subject of death, they both have different meanings. “The Waking” says to value life before death takes it away hence the line “I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow.” Here waking represents Life and Sleep represents Death. By saying “Take my waking slow” Theodore is saying that he wishes to value life. Similar to “The Waking”, “Do Not Go Gentle into That Good Night” uses the metaphor of night and sleep to represent death by saying “The Good Night”. Even with this similarity the message is different. Here Dylan tells us to “Rage” signifying the fact that no one should die without fighting. Here he tells us to fight even in our dying moments.
ReplyDeleteIn both poems, Roethke and Thomas both show how death is the overall outcome of living and that you cannot stop it from occurring. Although, Roethke has a different approach than what Thomas has. He says that we should just allow nature to take place and there's no point in trying to stop it because it is in our fate anyways. While Thomas says that we should not let death win over us, and even though we cannot stop death from happening altogether, we can still at least postpone it if we fight hard enough. The tones that each poem portrays differ from one another too. Roethke has a calm tone, because he feels there is no point in arguing about death, while Thomas has an aggressive tone because he feels like if we are close to death, the least we can do is not give up and resist death as strongly as we can
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